Feedback discussions - Nancy
describes her apparent cure from depression due to being "born again" and asks me
Based on your firm profession of being a Christian, when did you receive the Holy Spirit into you, the Spirit of truth which seals you? When were you regenerated in spirit. Can you remember a born again experience?
----- Original Message -----
To: Steve Locks
Sent: 18 December 2001 01:15
Hello Steve, I have gone over your website to a large extent. I must say I feel compeled to write, not to reiterate others, but to talk to you and ask you a few questions.
I too went to church somewhat as a child. My dad grew up a lutheran. He took catechism etc. My mother was a so-called pagan. (grin) Anyway, my dad never took us to church. In fact, he criticized the Bible. He said it was full of contradictions. But as a kid, I went to vacation Bible school with other kids in the neighborhood.But I never stayed in the church. As I grew, I came to believe that there was more to life, than just being here one day and being gone the next. And I truly didn't see any factual reason to believe I was nothing more than a glorified monkey! So I pondered the meaning of life, looking into various areas where I might find truth. This took me to readings by Frued, studying astrology, the occult, white witchcraft, psychic phenomena, ufo's, you name it I tried it. In fact I got very involved with mediums. I can honestly tell you I saw and witnessed through mediums, enough to be convinced of a spirit world. I burned candles to the spirits and my dog would howl. I introduced others to the psychic world and they were amazed as I was. It's amazing that the only thing I didn't go back and try was the church. My dad had showed me enough of the discrepency to prove the Bible false. While still involved with my own God and my own personal view of life, a Christian came to me and my husband and told us of our need for a Savior. Of course, we were humored by this. But we let them tells us this for a week before we said we'd heard enough about the flood, Satan, salvation, and the fall of man. I gave my own opinions of the Bible, which to me was a fairy tale and believed that no loving God would do the things or allow the things the Bible talked about. For the next 20 years I was perfectly content in my belief system. It worked for me. I was a generous, compassionate, funloving lady who had no enemies.
Or so I thought I had no enemies. I raised 2 sons. In my 40's I started having depression and anxiety.
I didn't understand it. I'd never had it before. I hid it well untill I became agoraphobic and lost weight rapidly. I was referred to a stress reduction therapy class by my doctor. After 6 weeks, I felt worse. I was now on medication to keep from vomiting and alternate diarrhea.I was on antianxiety meds as well.
I was getting so depressed that my life seemed to have no meaning. So I entered private therapy. I learned how I was a victim of an alcoholic family and had a total lack of love while growing up. So I stayed in therapy 2 years, still on meds, still miserable. Oh, I prayed to God over the years and was praying for answers to my circumstances. But no answer came. That is until one evening, all alone, I
decided to do the one thing I swore I'd never do. I called out to God. I didn't pray for Him to help me again. No, I prayed this prayer, " Jesus, if You are real and you are listening, then now I'm ready. I'm willing to turn my life over to You. I've tried everything else and I'm asking You to help me. I give my life to You." Steve, in seconds my life was transformed. The weight of the world was lifted from me. The baggage was gone. A complete and utter peace came over me that I'd only heard others talk about.
Along with it was a voice telling me, "You are home." A sudden realization that the book I'd ridiculed was telling me the truth. If I call upon the Lord, ( I mean the seeking with your whole heart) you will be saved. I thought, "Oh my gosh, this is real. You are real. You have been here for me all along and I didn't believe!" Needless to say, I never took another pill. I never had to (and I was on many). I went back to my therapist. As I sat there, he said something about me was different. He said I looked
different. He said, " You look good and you look like you feel good." I said, " I do and you know why?"
He asked and I told him, " Because I found out that somebody loves me more than anyone here on earth does and that is God!" He sat back, crossed his arms and went, "Humph." I guess he thought, "There goes all that money." I never went back. That has been 6 years ago. Do I tell this story when I can? You bet! I hated God. I hated the discrepency in the Word. I had an enemy I didn't know I had. it was God, because I was worshipping the ruler of this world, Satan, unbeknownst to me! I now understood what sin was and I knew I was guilty! But I knew I'd been forgiven because I had been humbled to the point of having to call out to the Creator for mercy. I wonder how many professing Christians have been humble before Him? Many who profess don't even know what the born again experience is when I ask them. But I have had the blessing of seeing others lives transformed by God through His Word in the same way that I had. So my question to you is this. Based on your firm profession of being a Christian, when did you receive the Holy Spirit into you, the Spirit of truth which seals you? When were you regenerated in spirit. Can you remember a born again experience?
Can you remember a time when you believed, not just about Jesus, but believed on Him as God incarnate with the power to save your soul? I ask this in earnest. You see, I did not study scripture as you did. I had no intellectual knowledge of Him. I did come to a point however, where I needed to trust Him as my personal Savior, not as a historical figure. So I earnestly ask at what point in your life did you do this, that he has so forsaken you, when my joy in Him gets sweeter every day. I wish you the best, more than you could know. Nancy
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Locks
Sent: 18 December 2001 23:58
Subject: Re: Intrigued
Thanks for your testimony. In my recent feedback, I wrote
I get diagnosed all kinds of reasons for why I am not a Christian
anymore, from a supposed bad experience, a poor relationship with my
father, not having been "born again" etc. Never yet has a Christian taken
the larger view and confronted the fact that people leave Christianity
from all Christian traditions and diverse walks. As I wrote:
"It is a common misapprehension to claim that those who leave Christianity
never understood what Christianity was "really about." The full range of
Christian types leave Christianity, from all denominations, doctrines, and
persuasions. From the most liberal to the most fundamentalist. The
philosophical liberal, the conservative orthodox, the born-again and the
hyper-charismatic fundie...apologists, theologians, missionaries,
ministers, fundamentalists and liberals. The broad spectrum from
professional to lay Christian of all Christian types." See my guest essay
If it is thought that quality apologetics already exist or there is an
experience the Christian God has not given us then one has to think
seriously about why so many knowledgeable and experienced Christians leave
Christianity. Why would God go to the trouble of incarnation and
crucifixion only to allow Christians to find Christianity untenable, or
give "spurious" experiences and "incorrect" interpretation to those who
spend so many years trying to live the Christian life? See
If you spend some time reading the deconversion stories found via my site
I think you will find that people from your brand of "true Christian" has
also left Christianity in the past. You might be interested in the mailing
list "Leaving Born Again Fundamentalist Christianity" at
There are many more examples if you want some, but a little digging around
my site should demonstrate this.
If it works for you, I am happy, but you should remember that people
can be deeply in love with the reverend Moon and have written
testimonies of rebirth like yours about people you would consider
cult leaders. However, apart from the "born again" experience being
special pleading for Christianity, I think there is an even more
problematic question for Christians who claim they have had the
"correct experience" that others have missed. If you really are
claiming that those who have left Christianity have never found
"true path" whether that is being "born again", "receiving the Holy
Spirit" or whatever, then what do you make of this
Please make sure you read the links in this email. Unfortunately
Christians seldom do and frequently quickly write back unaware of the
points that I have addressed in the URLs given in the previous email and
the thought I have put into their questions at those places on my website.
I think those links are very relevant to your questions.
If you ask a question of someone like "where you born again" and they
reply "yes" and that even so they left Christianity, does that have any
ramifications for the truth of Christianity? If not then what is the
relevance or point of your question? Are you arguing that the "born again
experience" is more likely to keep someone in Christianity, or ultimately
convince them that the beliefs they form from such experiences are true?
What explanatory power can a statement have if its falsity is
You may want to take up further questions with this chap