Thinking Beyond

Paul wrote

1Co 4:6  And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

Most disagreements in Christianity came from two parties arguing based upon opinion vs clearly stated scripture.

Tatian for example was called a heretic for arguing Adam and Eve were lost, while Irenaeus argued they were saved. Irenaeus was able to brand him as a heretic.

They deny, too, the salvation of him who was first created. It is but lately, however, that this opinion has been invented among them. A certain man named Tatian first introduced the blasphemy. He was a hearer of Justin's, and as long as he continued with him he expressed no such views; but after his martyrdom he separated from the Church, and, excited and puffed up by the thought of being a teacher, as if he were superior to others, he composed his own peculiar type of doctrine. He invented a system of certain invisible Æons, like the followers of Valentinus; while, like Marcion and Saturninus, he declared that marriage was nothing else than corruption and fornication. But his denial of Adam's salvation was an opinion due entirely to himself.

Augustine argued like Tatian that Adam was lost initially (Basing his doctrine of original sin on Adam's sin), but Augustine was considered a hero vs a heretic for augmenting his doctrine to proclaim grace saved Adam without showing corresponding text directly related to Adam's salvation. He later wrote that Adam was saved in the church. Irenaeus would not have accepted Augustine either. Augustine denied that Adam died.

They are whole for whom you seek the Physician. Not even was the first man condemned to die for any such reason, for he did not sin afterwards. As if he had ever heard anything of his subsequent perfection in righteousness, except so far as the Church commends to our faith that even Adam was delivered by the mercy of the Lord Christ. As to his posterity also, says he, not only are they not more infirm than he, but they actually fulfilled more commandments than he ever did, since he neglected to fulfil one,— this posterity which he sees so born (as Adam certainly was not made), not only incapable of commandment, which they do not at all understand, but hardly capable of sucking the breast, when they are hungry! Yet even these would He have to be saved in the bosom of Mother Church by His grace who saves His people from their sins;

Augustine was also found to write the following in Book XX of The City Of God,

That, therefore, which the whole Church of the true God holds and professes as its creed, that Christ shall come from heaven to judge quick and dead, this we call the last day, or last time, of the divine judgment. For we do not know how many days this judgment may occupy; but no one who reads the Scriptures, however negligently, need be told that in them "day" is customarily used for "time." And when we speak of the day of God's judgment, we add the word last or final for this reason, because even now God judges, and has judged from the beginning of human history, banishing from paradise, and excluding from the tree of life, those first men who perpetrated so great a sin. Yea, He was certainly exercising judgment also when He did not spare the angels who sinned, whose prince, overcome by envy, seduced men after being himself seduced.

Thus, it seems Augustine admitted no verse proclaiming Adam's salvation or any future righteousness. He also says Adam only had one sin and never sinned after. Adam likely sinned in many ways, having an innate conscience whereby he knew right and wrong to some degree. Just as Cain offered a lesser sacrifice and he knew murder was punishable by God and man.

Though scripture gives us insight into some parts of Adam and Eve's lives after the garden of Eden there are no clear statements they were eternally lost or saved. Thus Adam dying was likely physical, and not eternal, if saved in Christ.

Both parties would have been wise to say we can't say for sure, judgment belongs to God.

There is every indication that Adam and Eve were people of faith after the Garden. God promised that through her offspring Satan's head would be crushed. Satan seems to counter by having Cain crush Abel's head.

It is in this outcome that Eve praises God for giving her another seed named Seth.

Gen 4:25  And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Eve certainly attributed Seth to God, so we see Eve living in a sense of faith, not just faith  that God replaced a child but faith in the seed promise of Genesis 3.

Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Eve seems to be on the side of righteousness, as her seed is separated from Satan's seed.

It sounds strange but God probably caused the enmity between Cain and Abel, saying, "I will put enmity". God recognizing Cain was not of the same spiritual makeup as Abel and through God's righteous methods enmity came forth..

We also know Adam was of faith in Genesis 3 in stating Eve was given to him by God.

Gen 3:12  And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

It was despite this faith that God said Adam would die. Death came despite faith. At a time he confessed faith. Faith alone could not overcome the law of sin and death. Adam died while having faith.

Faith alone without a plan of salvation based in saving law did not save. We can hope that God had a plan for Adam based in Christ. Based in the seed line of Eve. Yet none is mentioned. We might assume Adam's general faith wasn't enough.

Faith did not reverse physical death, and we still die today. Death will only be destroyed when Christ returns.

We also know that God made them coverings of animal skin, showing a sense of atonement. Perhaps atonement along with faith allowed Adam to live on earth without dying immediately, but we can't say for sure that this applied to eternal salvation without Christ's atonement.

Despite all the evidence for their short-term atonement there is no clear statement they were saved eternally. The animals may have just extended their lives on earth in the atonement sense.

What is wrong with saying no one knows for certain if Adam was saved.

It is actually this argument over the salvation of Adam and Eve that caused the doctrine of original sin to be built. Teachers were trying to justify their doctrine of Adam and Eve's destruction or loss or salvation.

I believe it is possible Adam was lost while Eve was saved. God's law seems to apply to Adam and not Eve. We must remember that the name Adam came to be applied to both Adam and Eve in Genesis 5:1-2. It was a name applied to both and their offspring. The term in Adam all die could be using the idea of male and female, but there is no way to know if Paul is using it of Adam and Eve, or just Adam himself.

Gen 5:1  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Gen 5:2  Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

We must remember some verses may be speaking of them collectively. Though Eve ate the fruit first death was not consummated until Adam the first man had eaten.

Gen 3:17  And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

It is clear the curse was based upon Adam's sin, though Eve had her own consequence, Adam had his own. Man's death collectively was based upon Adam's sin. Eve was actually saved in a sense in child bearing.

Eve was not formed when Adam was placed in the Garden. Though Eve saw the law applying to her, there is no other evidence for it. Paul states she was deceived.

The command was given to Adam. He was not deceived but Eve was, thus she was cheated so to speak. Satan took advantage of her weakness and through her beguiled Adam.

1Ti 2:14  AndG2532 AdamG76 was notG3756 deceived,G538 butG1161 theG3588 womanG1135 being deceivedG538 wasG1096 inG1722 the transgression.G3847

Since the word g1722 is used it makes her the method, not the end. She was in the transgression without committing it. Eve was not condemned under the law applying to Adam, but the general law that all who sin will die that came after the transgression. In lieu of Adam's sin all who sin will die.

She ate of the fruit and offered it to her husband before the law of sin and death passed to all mankind. Sin is not imputed where there is no law.

Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

It wasn't when Eve ate the fruit that death passed but when Adam ate. Eve had eaten first.

Adam's sin would effect Eve after the transgression. When death passed to all. We can rightly assume all her sins following were her downfall as is ours. We can hope God provided atonement in Christ to be given to both.

I admit this to be theory, but there seems to be scriptural support for it. It is as valid an opinion as Tatian's or Irenaeus who used a verse not directly associated with the history itself. Irenaeus used a verse concerning the Law of Moses, not directly related to Adam.

Rom 5:20  Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Grace abounding during the time of the law would show God can give grace to overcome under any law. Yet there is no direct reference to Adam himself being saved. Irenaeus just used a verse not directly speaking of Adam.

Tatian and others also built theories concerning the realms of angelic beings. We know Paul spoke of the powers in heavenly places, but gave no teaching on their actual makeup

We can recognize there are heavenly powers as Revelation gives us a glimpse, but we shouldn't think we know enough to teach on the subject.

Tatian and others simply taught beyond what was written.

To me the best lesson is to stop teaching when you have no scriptural support, don't make stuff up to fill the holes we don't know about. Though I believe my theories have support, I don't feel the need to be dogmatic and force others to comply.

Were Adam and Eve saved? I hope so. Is there proof? Some, but not enough to build a full proof case.

Gen 3:22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

We know God took steps to prevent Adam from living forever.

It is certain God made sure physical death was established, and man had no power to circumvent it, for it is appointed unto man once to die.

So, unless God took steps of grace later we can't say for sure he was saved. It could be God allowed Adam's salvation through the promised seed of Eve, but no direct mention is made, though the seed promise is given to Eve.

This does dispel the theory that all intercourse is from fleshly lust, for Eve used it to renew the seed promise. Catholics taught all intercourse is a fleshly lust but Eve's intent was a seed, which is similar to all who have sexual relations from love and to start a family. In Eve's case a family of faith.

It dispels the original sin/total depravity theory since Eve's offspring were people of faith. Tatian's teaching that intercourse in marriage was fornication is clearly false. Thus, the theory of Catholicism concerning celibacy being more moral is false.

To me the best reason to believe Adam and Eve were eventually saved is that during the time of Seth and Enos men began to call upon the name of God. This was during Adam and Eve's lifetime. Perhaps God gave a way during their lifetime to be reconciled.

Gen 4:26  And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

Adam lived 800 or so years after the birth of Seth, so that he may have called upon God's name for salvation,

It is possible but not certain that Adam and Eve were saved during the time of Seth and his Son Enos. It isn't certain. It seems men of the early church thought it was, such as Irenaeus. What is certain is Adam and Eve had children who called upon God's name. They were not totally depraved.