Saxifraga moorcroftiana

Saxifraga moorcroftiana Wall., Rev. Saxifrag. 28, pl. 24 1831. (syn: Hirculus moorcroftianus (Wall.) Losinsk.; Saxifraga diversifolia var. moorcroftiana Seringe; Saxifraga kuana P.Yu. Zhmylev; Saxifraga lysimachioides Klotzch; Saxifraga nyanangensis J.T. Pan;Saxifraga reflexa Ku);     


Images by Prashant Awale

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Saxifraga sp?? 121010-PKA1 : 9 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (5)
Came across this herb on the way to Hampta pass (Manali region).
Date/Time: 27-09-2010 / 11:50AM
Location: On the way to Hampta pass at the altitude of approx 12000 ft (Manali region).
Habitat: Wild
Plant habit: Herb

Is it Saxifraga caveana ?
I suppose S. moorcroftiana
Looks like Saxifraga aristulata ? experts pl validate

S. aristulata is a small tufted moss-like plant scarcely longer than 8 cm, leaves linear hardly 8 mm long and flowers single.
The choice seems be between Saxifraga moorcroftiana and S. parnassifolia. Stem leaves are clearly ovate, but not sure about basal leaves.
Basal leaves broadly ovate, obtuse; leaf base subcordate.....................Saxifraga parnassifolia
+ Basal leaves elliptic to lanceolate, acute; leaf base attenuate.....Saxifraga moorcroftiana
Based on the inputs that i received from the group members, i was on look out for a erect saxifraga sp with leaves clasping stem, flowers bright yellow multiple flowers in a sort of cluster. After going thru the description in Polunin & Stainton, i think the closest match with this is "Saxifraga moorcroftiana". Also enclosing a link showing the flower type.. do have a look..
http://www.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/publish_db/Bulletin/no31/no31002.html

Yes ... Thanks for the link
Luckily I chanced upon a website, which may help us a lot in future. I has very good photographs of S. hirculus
The species especially the var. indica is characterised by smaller petals (1.5 to 2 times calyx) and stem with reddish hairs. This seems to agree with your plant, but leaves are much broader and almost ovate-cordate. Frankly speaking I am still not confident about this plant of yours: stem leaves of S. parnassifolia and basal leaves of S. moorcroftiana.
... is correct that this is Saxifraga moorcroftiana. I have seen it abundantly on the Rohtang and another pass above Naggar in Kulu Valley - Hampta is between them.  Rohtang may well be the place where William Moorcroft collected it - the species is named after him. He reached Leh via what is now Himachal Pradesh.
Stewart found Moorcroft's Saxifrage to be common in Kashmir @ 3000-4200m with records from above Gulmarg, Khelanmarg, Kolahoi, Sonamarg etc.
Flowers of Himalaya says Pakistan to SW China on alpine slopes @ 3600-4500m.
It is not S.parnassifolia (which I have seen in Nepal) which has not been recorded NW of Uttarakhand (according to 'Flowers of Himalaya' - though there is a somewhat dubious record from Kashmir). Nothing like S.caveana, S.aristulata or S.hirculus.
Well done ..., you have photographed both S.moorcroftiana and S.parnassifolia in HP- which means that 'Flowers of Himalaya' is incorrect in the distribution of the latter species.
Thank you ... I am happy to have found both in my part of the Himalaya.


 
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Saxifraga sp. ABSEP2016/29 : 5 posts by 2 authors. Found a couple of plants of this Saxifrage at 3200 and above. The red dots on the petals are conspicuous. The habit and leaves (smaller) are similar to S. parnassifolia. Could this be S. moorcroftiana?
Saxifraga moorcroftaianaMoorcroft's Saxifrage?
Above Triund, HP  3100m  03-04 September 2016
Very nice images!!!
I think matches with images at Saxifraga moorcroftiana
Thank you Mr garg. My images seem to match better with ... images here where petals have red markings. Are those images validated to be S. moorcroftiana?
Thanks, ... There was some mixed up earlier. I have corrected them now. Pl. see Saxifraga moorcroftiana
This looks correct. I have seen it on Rohtang and another pass in Kulu Valley. 
Stewart found Moorcroft's Saxifrage to be common in Kashmir @ 3000-4200m with records from above Gulmarg, Khelanmarg, Kolahoi, Sonamarg etc.
Flowers of Himalaya says Pakistan to SW China on alpine slopes @ 3600-4500m.
I do not consider it to be S.parnassifolia (which I have seen in Nepal) which has not been recorded NW of Uttarakhand (according to 'Flowers of Himalaya' - though there is a somewhat dubious record from Kashmir). Flowers of Himalaya distinguishes S.parnassifolia from S.moorcroftiana on the basis of basal leaves broadly ovate with heart-shaped base (narrowed to leaf-stalk in S.moorcroftiana) with upper leaves triangular heart-shaped with clasping rounded lobes with smaller petals 5-7mm). One cannot make out the basal or upper leaves in the photos or judge the length of petals but think the 7-10mm for S.moorcroftiana more likely.
Flowers of Himalaya says 3600-4500m - the lower limit is quite a bit higher than where this was photographed but the part of the Rohtang I saw what I consider to be S.moorcroftiana, growing abundantly was close to 3100m (or perhaps even lower).  Stewart's information for Kashmir of 3000m is likely to be correct. Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal (the main reference for 'Flowers of the Himalaya' with the Natural History Museum in London being the authors' reference herbarium, gives a lower limit of 2400m, so clearly a mistake was made in Polunin & Stainton's book - there are a number, not many but they do exist; we all make mistakes).
Collet called a plant he found to be rare at Shimla but common at Mushobra and Mahasu Saxifraga diversifolia. He considered it "typical" S. parnassifolia. He thought S.moorcroftiana which grew on the "Chor" was much taller and more robust with lanceolate or oblong leaves 5-10cm long, FBI included both under S.diversifolia.  Clearly, there has been confusion and differences of opinion about separating these species.
Stewart had S.diversifolia var. moorcroftiana as a synonym of Saxifraga moorcroftiana - he felt the true S.diversifolia was only found West of Kashmir.
 
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VoF Week: Saxifraga parnassifolia from Valley: 8 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (4)
Saxifraga parnassifolia from Valley
pls validate
Any photographs with lower leaves in focus please???
Sir Sorry I could not have more photograph. This was my second attempt with my Nikon D 5100. First time results were very bad (May 2012 Chakrata Visit) So i have to use old Canon one at that time. This time I tried to learn something from ..., ..., .. and ... about using DSLR. So Most of the time i spent in setting the camera in manual mode. Hope next time I will use D5100 properly and will take multiple shots.
Sir I could some more pics
I thought we should exclude S. moorcroftiana which only basal leaves can do.
Some More Pics. Attachments (6)
This is Saxifraga moorcroftiana. In addition to the differences between this and S.moorcroftiana given in 'Flowers of the Himalaya', the assorted images of both species posted on this site and my own images of S.moorcroftiana have shown clear differences. S.parnassifolia has more rounded /circular petals with 2 noticeable 'appendages' at the base of petals. S.moorcroftiana does not have the appendages but typically markings on the interior of the petals which are narrower, a markedly different shape.
Both species are recorded for this region. Other than that, I think, given that not only has there been confusion between the two species historically, that has continued to this day, as shown by the postings on this site, quoting what the floras and references have to say is pointless.  I feel I have built up the better understanding - thanks to viewing plants in the wild and the other images seen thanks to eFI.  This is superior to pressed specimens alone in herbaria.....
 
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VOF Week: Herb for id from Ghanghariya-Hemkunt trek: This small herb was shot from near Hemkunt Sahib on the trek, is this a Saxifraga sp. ?
Saxifraga parnassifolia I hope
May be Saxifraga brachypoda var fimbriata ?????
Saxifraga brachypoda var. fimbriata, now correctly known as S. wallichiana belong to the section spinulosae in which leaves are acute, narrower and spinose tipped as can also be seen from description and illustration on Flora of China.
Above plant seems to have much broader obtuse leaves, sepals are broader and obtuse and petals without two callosities, and petal margins not fimbriate.
Perhaps more searching is needed.
Saxifraga parnassifolia.
This is Saxifraga moorcroftiana. In addition to the differences between this and S.moorcroftiana given in 'Flowers of the Himalaya', the assorted images of both species posted on this site and my own images of S.moorcroftiana have shown clear differences. S.parnassifolia has more rounded /circular petals with 2 noticeable 'appendages' at the base of petals. S.moorcroftiana does not have the appendages but typically markings on the interior of the petals which are narrower, a markedly different shape.
Both species are recorded for this region. Other than that, I think, given that not only has there been confusion between the two species historically, that has continued to this day, as shown by the postings on this site, quoting what the floras and references have to say is pointless.  I feel I have built up the better understanding - thanks to viewing plants in the wild and the other images seen thanks to eFI.  This is superior to pressed specimens alone in herbaria.....

This is one more set of pics of Saxifraga parnassifolia (??) spotted en-route Dhel pass at GHNP at an altitude of approx. 3600m.
Bot. name: Saxifraga parnassifolia ?? (Pl. validate ID)
Family: Saxifragaceae
Date/Time: 28-09-2014 / 11:40AM
Yes it is.
This is Saxifraga moorcroftiana. In addition to the differences between this and S.moorcroftiana given in 'Flowers of the Himalaya', the assorted images of both species posted on this site and my own images of S.moorcroftiana have shown clear differences. S.parnassifolia has more rounded /circular petals with 2 noticeable 'appendages' at the base of petals. S.moorcroftiana does not have the appendages but typically markings on the interior of the petals which are narrower, a markedly different shape.
Both species are recorded for this region. Other than that, I think, given that not only has there been confusion between the two species historically, that has continued to this day, as shown by the postings on this site, quoting what the floras and references have to say is pointless.  I feel I have built up the better understanding - thanks to viewing plants in the wild and the other images seen thanks to eFI.  This is superior to pressed specimens alone in herbaria.....


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Saxifraga parnassifolia ?? set-1 -- en-route Dhel Pass - GHNP - PKA72 :  2 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (6).
Seen this herb en-route Dhel pass at GHNP at an altitude of approx. 3600m.
Bot. name: Saxifraga parnassifolia ?? (Pl. validate ID)
Family: Saxifragaceae
Date/Time: 28-09-2014 / 09:40AM

I think your identification is correct..
This is Saxifraga moorcroftiana. In addition to the differences between this and S.moorcroftiana given in 'Flowers of the Himalaya', the assorted images of both species posted on this site and my own images of S.moorcroftiana have shown clear differences.  S.parnassifolia has more rounded /circular petals with 2 noticeable 'appendages' at the base of petals. S.moorcroftiana does not have the appendages but typically markings on the interior of the petals which are narrower, a markedly different shape.
Both species are recorded for this region.  Other than that, I think, given that not only has there been confusion between the two species historically, that has continued to this day, as shown by the postings on this site, quoting what the floras and references have to say is pointless.  I feel I have built up the better understanding - thanks to viewing plants in the wild and the other images seen thanks to eFI.  This is superior to pressed specimens alone in herbaria.....


 
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Only took a single shot of this Saxifrage whilst walking down from Khelanmarg along a stream towards Gulmarg.
Do not have a precise altitude but I suppose around 3150m.
The markings on the petals seem distinctive to me. Saxifraga moorcroftiana rather than S.parnassifolia
A beautiful flower from a robust and showy species.

Saxifraga diversifolia in FOI : 3 posts by 2 authors.

You are right ... Also, the petals are not clawed. They are supposed to be clawed in Saxifraga diversifolia. Corrected now.


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Saxifraga moorcroftiana ABSEP2017/02 : 3 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (16)
I had filed this species last year here. Following insightful  comments by Chris Chadwell and looking into various descriptions I decided to look into the species in a little more detail. I found several plants growing along with the similar looking S. parnassifolia on the southwestern slope near Ilaqa. I made comparative photographs to see the difference clearly and hope that this removes any confusion that these to are two distinct species.
Quick points:
1. The bottom leaves on S. parnassifolia have long hairy stalks (3-4 cm, photo 7967), while those on S. moorcroftiana have barely a tiny winged stalk that is easy to miss.
2. The petals of S. moorcroftiana have red markings and are rounder than those of S. parnassifolia.
3. The sepals on S. moorcroftiana flowers are ovate, fringed with red glands while those on S. parnassifolia are more lanceolate and have translucent white glands.
I hope these difference are clearly delineated in the following photos.
Saxifraga moorcroftiana
Ilaqa, Dharamhala, HP
3200mm approx.
17, 26 Aug and 03 September 2017
Superb details with beautiful comparative analysis. 
Thank you once again. I am happy to sort out some confusion regarding the species growing here.

 

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