Elaeocarpus grandiflorus (Cultivated)

Elaeocarpus grandiflorus J. E. Smith (syn: Elaeocarpus grandiflorus var. angustifolius Gagnep.; Monocera grandiflora (J. E. Sm.) Hook.; Perinka grandiflora (J. E. Sm.) Rafin.);

Java, peninsular Malaysia (Kedah, Pahan, Selangor), Myanmar [Burma] (widespread), Philippines (Busuanga), Laos, Vietnam as per Catalogue of Life;

As per efi thread:
E. grandiflorus is with broader leaf compared to those of E. hainanensis.  


 
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/334616611670fe10/P1110093-Cropped.JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGL8NJ6vDJYC447LLyJutp8WK7I7oSlOzxNHWMOLTs0Slgj_YhSmRru1FR3WasRFpy5GZFN36d1hb25C2Wrl1EwBvu-Uh8-_Gcsz_mnFdQIfVVLvgQ
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Tree For ID : Sri Lanka : 110713 : AK-1 : Attachments (2). 3 posts by 2 authors.
A medium sized tree seen growing wild at a tea estate in Sri Lanka on 17/11/2010.
White flowers seen.
Could be Elaeocarpus
Elaeocarpus hainanensis 

Yes the leaves here are different and very broad.
You mean it is E. grandiflora 


 
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/95661c453f9f660/Elaeocarpus%20dentatus3.JPG?part=0.3&view=1&vt=ANaJVrERGTRG4u_SqYuwBuZEAkmCQC3wCitP6ymiMnbskd2HUKrVWHQle135dUPenNmCmVqBpuVWH77q8T5JMNZ9LVGppPp1pxImYGH9YbUmK8gXNcidtIM
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/95661c453f9f660/Elaeocarpus%20dentatus1.JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGIHsKmzOcWM1xPCL0Fp3O7qTMMoz5YHf_mD6YpDLN1JbJqYROs6SWjPMLYjbwEo0UYLOlDDuVxHrhneKQfa44GN28g9rc34CBVhDcZ72nyFWQ-QKY
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/95661c453f9f660/Elaeocarpus%20dentatus.JPG?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrH_EmGiMc9BRRw2duwj9F28MW2ulFjwlkAKaO6HxTFsnD-Hb9qF3mQ5uxwr9pWYDAsDPGMC1kQ0M_gzMC0p5hsVWcDH076spt1-BmS5WAi7srKlXI8
Elaeocarpus dentatus (J.R.Forst. &G.Forst.) Vahl, cultivated tree at Department of Horticulture, GKVK Bangalore, I thank ... for permitting me to take photograph.
Does not matches with images of Elaeocarpus dentatus at
It matches with Elaeocarpus hainanensis Oliv. (Cultivated) as per images herein.
Taking it as Elaeocarpus grandiflorus as per efi thread:
E. grandiflorus is with broader leaf compared to those of E. hainanensis. 
  
 
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/f7b00e491360a74b/eleocarpous%20sps%20%20c.jpg?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGsT0_oyWXKL9BXSNbRI9Phynf5lfeQkoU1bgykKihm7D5DgOQFWOvmssQ8_qZr3ww-J6r07VVfc1W39Cs0slAFX7VbkJLSgq5GH4gGD5V0-qjl8sk
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Request to confirm id of plant : 11 posts by 6 authors. Attachments (2)
Please confirm the id of this plant.
This plant may be Elaeocarpous serratus or E.glandulosus
Photo taken from TMC garden Thane pl. see attached file
efi page on Elaeocarpus serratus & Elaeocarpus variablis (Syn: E. glandulosus sensu auctt.) 
Elaeocarpus  species in eFloraofindia (with details/ keys from published papers/ regional floras/ FRLHT/ FOI/ Biotik/ efloras/ books etc., where ever available)     
It looks a lot like Elaeocarpus ganitrus
Elaeocarpus hainanensis
This appears be a small tree with flowering branches close to the ground.
Elaeocarpus hainanensis seems to be correct: few flowered racemes, leaves clustered at ends of branches,

I am taking the liberty of uploading pictures of the flowers of the same tree (I think) from the TMC garden (Dattaji Salvi Udyan, Kopri).
Could these pics help to nail the ID?
Attachments (7)
efi page on Elaeocarpus hainanensis & Elaeocarpus sphaericus (syn. (=) Elaeocarpus angustifolius Blume; (=) Elaeocarpus ganitrus Roxb. ex G. Don);
Yes, the leaves are quite different from E. sphericus, this plant matches well with Elaeocarpus grandiflorus 
In Elaeocarpus sphaericus leaf shape is oblong, fruit is globose, whereas in Elaeocarpus hainanensis the leaf shape is elliptic, has acute tip, fruit also elliptic with pointed tip. I saw this tree growing in GKVK garden, Bangalore
... is correct.
In Elaeocarpus sphaericus the racemes have many flowers and leaves are more evenly spaced on branches. It will never flower when it is such a small tree.
Taking it as Elaeocarpus grandiflorus as per efi thread:
E. grandiflorus is with broader leaf compared to those of E. hainanensis. 

Dattaji Salvi Udyan  Thane
Date: May 10, 2018 ... Altitude: about 11 m (36 feet) asl
Elaeocarpus grandiflorus  Sm.   

Thanks ... The gardener maintains it to be E. grandiflorus. Hopefully the ID gets validated.

Looks like ID is correct.

We have one posting from Thane garden in my given link. 

Yes ..., and in the concluding part of that post as of today, ... observation is Elaeocarpus grandiflorus.
I am not good at Elaeocarpus. I am going with ID given by the gardener, and it is convincing.

I checked both the species for images and detailed description.
Both looked superficially similar and almost similar distribution (except for China).
For Elaeocarpus hainanensis, I could find detailed description and illustration at (but not for Elaeocarpus grandiflorus) Flora of China (which does not mention Elaeocarpus grandiflorus at all- it is also not mention in any of the efloras at its site).
Pl. also see Flora of China illustration, which matches with your post. I think bracts are crucial for correct id, which matches here.
Pl. also see other links as below:
Some links of reliable sites of Elaeocarpus grandiflorus (not mentioning and showing bracts) are give below:
In view I will go for Elaeocarpus hainanensis
Thanks ... At Flora of China, there is not much of description, the illustration does show bracts, and it quite matches those in posted plant.
But it does not convince me that the posted plant is not grandiflorus. I tried finding descriptions of bracts in both species, but could not get any satisfactory results.
Though colours of petals / sepals are not strong features that segregate species, I have a strong feeling that hainanensis has pale rust to yellow coloured sepals, while grandiflorus has pale to dark pink.
There is one line drawing for grandiflorus at Globinmed which shows plant aspects similar to that of hainanensis, including the small leaf-like bracts.
Another ohoto at Vintage Green Farms with Tom Piergrossi shows similar bracts in grandiflorus.
I would like to consider (and strongly believe) that the plant is Elaeocarpus grandiflorus.
I hope garden enthusiasts come forward with their validating comments.
Thanks, ... Flora of China gives very detailed description.
You got the description at Globinmed. But it does not say anything about bracts in description as seen in your images.
Link at Vintage Green Farms with Tom Piergrossi can not be considered as reliable.
As in S E Asia, both plants are found, there may be some confusion between these two species at Globinmed 
We have to find out the reliable site for Elaeocarpus grandiflorus with detailed description giving leaf like bracts.
The line drawing in Globinmed shows the bracts in the fruiting branch.
Will wait for validating comments regarding these two species.
Taking it as Elaeocarpus grandiflorus as per efi thread:
E. grandiflorus is with broader leaf compared to those of E. hainanensis. 

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/70a4cc167505b/_DSC0711.JPG?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGDxQPbVp7Rn-fFQNBld5f3KT-BHG_Ziv2XZE3hq9iD5JxCbZU85_b4XMLpMPNhUYsjx-_Pi_iC-GYBtfSMO8U_ezi-YJfaXrvZ6lNtydgl8hncCbs
 
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SK1434 12 Sep 2018 : 27 posts by 5 authors. Attachments (4)- around 700 kb each. 
Location:  Victoria Harbour, Hong Kong 
Date: 13 August 2018
Elevation: 200 ft.
Habit : Cultivated

Cerbera sp? Here the leaves are finely serrated (they are entire in c odollam as i have seen) and the twigs bearing the fruit appear different than what i seen on c. odollam.

Cerbera manghas L ??

Interesting. Few days back you asked me if this fruits or not!!
This is Elaeocarpus hainanensis, in fruits.
This is a native tree to Hong Kong. Protected in Hong Kong.

yes i did ask if fruits are seen, or if you see them thinking it may be similarly spectacular as our Elaeocarpus...
---
its uncanny that fruits of trees so far apart in the classification. would look similar on digital photos.

Is your comment on my right post ?
i am confused too. is not your post here a cerbera? i hope ... looks at the pictures again
pictures posted are not of C.monghas

This is Elaeocarpus hainanensis.
Kindly look at the bracts on the inflorescence. Very typical. 
Who has seen that bract and serrate leaf in Cerbera manghas?
Attachments (1)- E hainanensis.jpg

great, i am relieved. the serrated leaves had bothered me, i even mentioned the serration, my mistake was not to think laterally into another group altogether. thanks ... learned a lesson. so i agree this is as you say Elaeocarpus hainanensis.
Are both these plant same species ?- efi thread

I will recheck and get back to you. Obviously both are Elaeocarpus, on with denticulate margin and narrow leaf is surely hainanensis. Need to confirm second one.

One of my friends in China says the one with broader leaf is grandiflorus. It is not reported from HK or China in wild.
Thanks, ... You mean to say the posted plant here is Elaeocarpus grandiflorus with slightly broader leaves.
Is their no other substantial difference which can be observed in images ?
We have similar confusion in our posts at Elaeocarpus hainanensis. Pl. see. If we follow this suggestion, all our posts except yours and ... may be Elaeocarpus grandiflorus.
Can we get detailed keys somewhere to authoritatively sort out these species ?

I think Flora of China does not list both the Species- so that comparison can be made.

Ok ...
Because grandiflorus is said to be "not native to China".
There are many exotic plants in HK planted by various people from time to time. So much so, that there are now two group of thoughts for few species. Some say species X is planted, some say it was once found in wild and what we see are just remaining plants.
Yes ... Such debate is everywhere, in Nepal also. 


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