Diospyros montana ?

Quarrelsome tree, Jagala ganti mara, Nila viruksha, Kare mara,  Kari, Kari maram;

Id please : 8 posts by 6 authors. Attachments (4)
ID Please
A Medium sized tree
Local Marathi name is Gondal
At Ratnagiri, Maharashtra
25 Dec,2014
It looks like Diospyros montana, but I'm not used to seeing it in fruiting condition at this time of year.
efi page on Diospyros montana 
The photograph particularly the fruits resemble the Diospyros brasiliensis
yes, looks more like Diospyros montana
To me it seems to be Diospyros melanoxylon
efi page on Diospyros melanoxylon. No efi page on Diospyros brasiliensis as yet. 
If the fruits are more than 3 cm across, it could be Diospyros melanoxylon.
In D. montana, the fruits are usually less than 2 cm across.

Based on your Id in another thread: Can it be Diospyros montana Roxb. only ?
Yes, I think so. Diospyros montana Roxb. [Ebenaceae].
I don't think it to be Diospyros montana.
Request for ID - 271010RA1: Request ID of this tree with persistent calyx fruits. The leaves have wavy
margins, oblong, acute, glaucous texture, prominent middle venation.
Seen  at Matheran, Mah., on 24 Oct '10.

Diospyros sp.
Diospyros for sure.... may be as simple as malabarica.
This is Diospyros condolleana locally called Kalino.
It cannot be D. candolleana where the leaves are more or less oblong (elongated) and is an evergreen tree.
This plant appears to be deciduous and may be close to D. montana or D. cordifolia.
Thanks for your comments.
Have studied the flora of Matheran with Mr.B.G.Gavade [Dr.Almeida's student]. Don't think this is D.cordifolia which has strong often branched thorns scattered over the trunk and larger branches. Also don't think it is Govindu / Maskudal [D.montana]. Have it on my farm.
Also have not figured out how you deduced this is a deciduous tree ?
Thanks to all for the leads. ... I think this is not D. candolleana- having recently seen and posted the pics of the tree ided by Dr. Almeida at Amboli. Thanks ... for the possible alternatives Shall await further inputs.  
It could be Diospyros sylvetica. Ref:- Flora of Maharashtra- Vol 3-page 177.
Thanks ... Just checked, I find D. sylvatica description of the bark as coloured, thin, smooth, leaves elliptic and paler beneath not quite matching. I find D. montana slightly more matching. Hope to get more expert opinions.
To me it appears more closer to Diospyros melanoxylon Roxb.  as per images herein. Also see images at Diospyros melanoxylon ? 
Based on your Id in another thread: Can it be Diospyros montana Roxb. only ?
Yes, this appears to be Diospyros montana Roxb. [Ebenaceae].
big gap of field exposure, rarely going to forest these days.
*Trunk appears typical of Diospyros montana.
Leaves are not of typical D. montana of Goa & Karnataka W. Ghats.
I have seen Diospyros melanoxylon only is Sagar, Shimoga (Karnataka) and the leaves were not at all glabrous, shiny. 

01052015 BRS 002 for id. request from Chennai : 2 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (4)
Pl. find the attached file contain photos for id. request.
Date: 01.05.2015
Location: Adyar, Chennai
Habitat: Garden
Habit: Tree
Diospyros Species.
Appears close to images at Diospyros montana Roxb. 
To me it seems to be some species of Diospyros.
Leaf tip of Diospyros montana is slightly pointed and the tree trunk is black in colour 
Diospyros montana is famous TAMAL associated with lord Krishna. 

Tamal of Brindaban : ID Please : 12 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (2)
About two years back we had long discussion on "Tamala". Ayurvedacharya Shibkali Bhattacharya says Tamala is Garcinia xanthochymus. English name is Sour Mangosteen which has come from Malayan word mangustan. The tree with its fruits and leaves were shown at that time.
Recently we visited Belur Math. Swamiji brought one Tamala from Brindaban and planted it some 40 years back. It has grown about 20 ft tall. It flowes in spring; small yellowish white flower. It bears no fruit. I am attaching a part of a twig and a leaf. Kindly identify.
The name Tamala in Sanskrit is shared by two species Garcinia xanthochymus Hook.f. (syn: G. tinctoria Dunn.) and G. morella Desr. They also share Hindi name Tamal. Other names include:
           G. xanthochymus                               G. morella
Beng:  Chalata, tamal                                     Tamal 
Mar:    Jharambi, ota                                       Tamal
Tel:     Ivarumidi, tamalamu                               Pasupuvarne, revalchinni
Tam:   Kulavi, malaippachai, mukki, tamalam     Makki, solaipulippuli
Kan:   Devagarige, janagi                                  Devagarige
Mal:   Anavaya,                                                Chigiri, daramba, karukkampuli, pinnarpuli
Oriya:Cheoro, sitambu
Assam:                                                           Kuji-thekera
Looking at the shape of leaves the plant to me it looks like G. xanthochymus which has narrower but longer (15-25 cm long) thicker leaves as compared to somewhat thinner but broader and shorter (8-12 cm long) leaves.

Thank you ... for your illuminating note. One difficulty i face. Garcinia xanthochymus bears fruits (see attached photo) but this one does not as obseved by people in the Math. 
All three are supposed to produce fruits. The mangostreen G. mangostana has 6-8 cm diam fruits, dark purple when ripe with 5-8 seeds; The sour mangosteen, G. xanthochymus has dark yellow fruit 5-8 cm in diam with 5 seeds, where as Indian Gamboge tree G. morella has much smaller about 2 cm across fruit with 4 seeds. The tree usually has numerous male flowers and a few female and bisexual ones. Check for both types of flowers, essential for seed set. The occurrence of single tree may be the problem. It is reported that in many species of Garcinia young trees produce male flowers and old trees female flowers, and as such presence of both young and old trees is necessary for fruit set. You may please check this aspect.  
To me it doesn't look like Garcinia. As far as i know, Garcinia species generally have opposite, subfleshy and glabrous leaves. The leaf in the picture is alternate, chartaceous and hairy. So, i think it can't be Garcinia. It someway looks like Diospyros though not sure. More details required to id it.

Yes ... You are right. The plant has alternate leaves. The search is on, the plant may not be Tamala after all.
I think its a species of Diospyros, likely to be D.montana

One thing we are sure that it flowers in spring and has small white/yellow flowers. It does not bear fruit. So if Diospyros montana can fulfil the above two conditions it is D. montana. Will the experts kindly verify .
If it is confirmed as Diospyros montana (pl try to send flower pictures), and if it flowers and doesn't produce any fruits, then it should be a 'male' tree! obviously it will never set fruit!!
Diospyros montana male flowers picture from net: http://www.petprauma.com/plant/makleo01.jpg
Kindly let us know the native languages names and also the English name of Diospyros montana.
Here are the names:
Diospyros montana Roxb.
English: Mountain persimon
Sans.: Tamala
Hindi: Bistendu, tendu
Beng.: Bangab
Mar.: Goindu, timru
Guj.: Timbarao
Tel.: Eddayagata, gatugata
Tam.: Vakkanai, vakkanattan
Kanm.: Jagalaganti, balagunike
Oriya: Bhodrika
Punjab: Hirek, Kendu
M. P.: Kadal, kanchau
Source of Bombay ebony, crushed leaves and fruits used for stupefying fish; fruit crushed and applied externally to boils.


Jagala ganti mara - Quarrelsome tree : 8 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (1)
According to the local farmers belief, if the wood from this tree is used as a fire wood at home, a quarrel arises between mother in law and daughter in law. There by the villagers avoid cutting of this tree for fuel. In this picture we can see only half of the tree with leaves and the other half barren. 
Location: Moodlu Koppalu
K R Nagar, Mysore dist. 
Jagala Ganti mara (English : Quarrel some tree)
Family: Ebenaceae
Diospyros Montana
I could find a good link for this tree called Diospyros candolleana as per the link: http://www.indian-herbs-exporters.com/_diospyros_candolleana.html
Do you have other pictures of leaves etc. pl. post them?
trunk and leaf of the same tree. Attachments (2)
Thanks, ... Sorry, I didn't see that you have already given its scientific name as Diospyros montana. Here is one link for this: http://encyclopedia.frlht.org.in/index.php?plantid=837&calledFrom=VIEW_ALL_SPECIES&sortBy=Y&gPAGE_NO=2&gLOWER_LIMIT=20#view

Trees of Delhi by P. Krishen states Diospyros montana as invalid syn. of D. cordifolia, while D. montana var. cordifolia as valid syn. of D. cordifolia. Common names for D. cordifolia being Bistendu, Mountain persimmon, Bombay Ebony, Kendu etc.

This file picture of the Diospyros montana tree that was posted years back shows one half of the tree with leaves and the other half barren. We were positive that leaves would sprout on the side that was hitherto barren. Our patience bore fruit this year (a period of 5 years since the first post) with the tree showing clear signs of green leaves on its barren side. But then, thanks to Nature's fury, the newly bedecked Jagala ganti mara or the Diospyros montana tree lay uprooted.  Sigh!

May 05 2010

Moodlu Koppal 

Picture of Jagalaganti  photo Feb 2008