Trichosanthes wallichiana

Trichosanthes wallichiana (Ser.) Wight, Madras J. Lit. Sci. 12: 52 1840. (Syn: Anguina wallichiana (Ser.) Kuntze; Involucraria wallichiana Ser.; Trichosanthes grandibracteata Kurz; Trichosanthes multiloba C. B. Clarke (ambiguous synonym); Trichosanthes palmata var. scotantus C.B. Clarke);

China (S-Yunnan), Tibet, Assam, Myanmar [Burma] (Kachin), Indochina, peninsular Malaysia, Bhutan, India, Nepal, Darjeeling, Sikkim, Singapore as per Catalogue of Life;
  

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Trichosanthes kirilowii for confirmation : 20 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (7)
Please help to confirm this species of Trichosanthes.
Trichosanthes kirilowii ?
Photographed in Kullu District, Himachal Pradesh
Altitude - 1400meters asl
Dated -  29June2018

Interesting species.
If it is T. kirilowii it is new for India. It is not mentioned by Renner & Pandey (2012) in India.
Image of this species are available in Tropicos at-http://www.tropicos.org/Name/9201111?tab=images

To me appears close as per images and details herein. 

Thanks ... I was also thinking of same earlier but here leaves are papery upto 7 lobed unlike Trichosanthes tricuspidata where leaves are 3-5 lobed.
Also in our plant the leaves are deeply lobed which looks close to the herbarium images given in the link.
Here's the link http://www.tropicos.org/Image/100188347

I find lot of posts in efi site, where leaves look closer to your images. I think if you go through all the posts from efi site page, it will give a better picture. 

Thanks ..., I have already gone through the page and I have found that the leaf of Trichosanthes tricuspidata is very much variable and I think you may be right though I will try to get it fruit by next month, that may help to confirm.
Thanks, ... Also check the calyx/ bracts in both the species. I think these should be different. 
While going through Flora of Bhutan, I found that Trichosanthes tricuspidata is not mentioned, while T. lepiniana and T. wallichiana are mentioned.
Checklist of Nepal, considers Trichosanthes lepiniana (Naudin) Cogn. as a syn. of Trichosanthes tricuspidata Lour.
Catalogue of Life considers both as different as per Trichosanthes lepiniana (Naudin) Cogn.
I found the following keys in Flora of China:
29 (27)Leaves leathery (30)
+Leaves membranous or papery (31)
    
30 (29)Bracts suborbicular, margin lacerate; calyx segments narrowly ovate, margin laciniate; leaves suborbicular. 17 T. lepiniana
+Bracts obovate-oblong, margin dentate; calyx segments narrowly lanceolate, margin dentate; leaves ovate-cordate. 26 T. tricuspidata
    
31 (29)Leaves papery. 21 T. laceribractea
+Leaves membranous (32)
    
32 (31)Leaf blade suborbicular, deeply palmately 5-7-lobed; bract margin crenulate; calyx segments ca. 15 mm, entire. 15 T. wallichiana
+Leaf blade orbicular-cordate or broadly ovate-cordate, unlobed or irregularly 2- or 3(-5)-lobed; bract margin lobulate with linear- lanceolate lobes; calyx segments ca. 10 mm, entire or serrate. 16 T. fissibracteata

In view, your plant may be T. lepiniana. Pl. check.

Both species are closely related as per flora of Bhutan and Keys in Flora of Bhutan can be seen at Trichosanthes
I am reproducing details from it as below:
7. T. wallichiana (Seringe) Wight; T. multiloba Clarke
Leaves suborbicular in outline, 10 - 20 x 10 - 20cm, deeply 3 — 9-lobed, lobes oblong or lanceolate, acuminate, base rounded, margin denticulate or dentate, coarsely pubescent above, glands clustered between veins on lower surface; petioles 3 — 10cm; tendrils 2 — 3-fid. Male peduncles 15 - 35cm, pubescent, 6 -12—flowered; bracts broadly ovate, 2.5 - 3cm, base sheathing, toothed above; calyx tube 5 - 5.5cm, 12- 14mm wide at apex, teeth 1- 1.5 x 0.5 - 0.6cm; petals obovate, 3 - 4cm; anthers 12 — 13 x 3mm. Female peduncles 2 - 4cm; ovary oblong. Fruit oblong-ovoid, c 8 x 5cm, reddish; seeds squarish, 15 - 18mm, 7mm thick.
Bhutan: C - Punakha and Tashigang districts, N - Upper Mo Chu and Upper Kuru Chu districts; Darjeeling: widespread; Sikkim: Lachen. In mixed rain forest, 240- 2440m. July - August.
8. T. lepiniana (Naudin) Cogniaux. Nep: Indrenee
Similar to T. wallichiana but leaves more shallowly 3 — 5-lobed, 13 x 15cm, punctate above at first, later densely scaly along veins and with a few glands in vein axils beneath; tendrils 2 - 3-fid. Male peduncles 15 - 20cm; bracts obovate, 4.5 x 3cm, sheathing at base, fimbriate above; calyx tube 5cm, 5 - 7mm wide at apex, teeth lanceolate, 1.5 x 0.5cm; petals obovate, 2 — 3cm, laciniate; female peduncles 1.5 - 3cm. Fruit scarlet, ovoid, 8 x 6cm; seeds blackish, oblong, 15 x 7 x 2.5mm.
Bhutan: S — Deothang district (Morong), C - Tongsa district (Shamgong) and Mongar district (Kori La); Darjeeling: Rishap, Darjeeling, Lebong. In warm mixed forests, 1200- 2100m. May - August.
Flowers open at night.
Following this and GBIF specimens and no. of lobes, it may turn out to be T. wallichiana (Seringe) Wight.
For Trichosanthes wallichiana (Seringe) Wight, Flora of China gives as below:
Male raceme 6-15-flowered at apex; peduncle stout, 10-20(-30) cm, grooved, puberulent; bracts broadly ovate, 2-3 cm, crenulate, slightly puberulent, multiveined; calyx tube ca. 5 × 1 cm; segments ca. 1.5 × 0.4 cm, entire.

After checking the gbif herbarium images and descriptions in FOC. 
I am of the opinion that our plant is Trichosanthes wallichiana.
As leaves are deeply palmate, papery, crenulate with 5-7 lobes. 
Moreover Trichosanthes wallichiana is also mentioned in Flora of Himachal Pradesh.
May I request you for the keys between the two in your books.
… only T. wallichiana is mentioned in the book Flora of Himachal Pradesh moreover it doesn't have any good keys. However i am attaching the image of its page
 
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SK1536 25 Oct 2018 : 12 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (6)- around 700 kb each. 
Location:  Shivapuri National Park, Nepal 
Date: 25 August 2018
Elevation: 5800 ft.
Habit : Wild 
Not good quality due mobile click..

Some Cucurbitaceae member, you posted it earlier

Ok ... I shall check. Was it identified?

Yes, it was identified. 


well is pic 115208. the second picture. does it belong to this case?
All images from the same plant ...!

does not the four lobed leaf, symmetrically cut in the middle leaf bother you???

Also check 
Leaves are quite variable. 

ok but this much? that leaf bothers me botanical id is thrown off into confusion
--
irrelevant fact: it reminds me of a romulan knife or weapon of aggression on Star Trek series and movies. irrelevant, but there you have it.
I guess ... is right. It has so many fariable leaves.
Trichosanthes wallichiana Wight  ??
Pl. see discussions in Trichosanthes kirilowii for confirmation
I guess it is not matching and not listed in Nepal as well.
Trichosanthes wallichiana Wight
Pl. go through my detailed comments in the … thread. 
Your opinion about this … ?
Trichosanthes wallichiana as well as Trichosanthes lepiniana (Involucraria lepiniana) both species are listed from Nepal. 
Please see the link
Both these species are closely related but leaves of T. lepiniana are comparitively smaller in size (13x15cm) and more shallowly 3-5 lobed. 
I think your plant can be Trichosanthes wallichiana but proper examining of the flowers, leaves and seeds is required in future for confirmation. 


 
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Trichsanrthes wallichiana (Ser.) Wight : Attachments (2). 1 post by 1 author.
Trichosanthes wallichiana (Ser.) Wight, Fam: Cucurbitaceae
25/10/2011; altitude 1500-2000m
Climber from Nepal and Siliguri - West Bengal, climber
fruit cut open, seeds, Indreni (nepal)
Seeds used in medicine, it is a NTFP 


 
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Trichosanthes tricuspidata Lour. : 9 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (5)- around 800 kb each. 
Location: Nagarkot, Nepal
Altitude : 6000 ft.
Date: 18 July 2018
Habit : Wild  

seems to be, though the flower looks all beaten up. poor thing and no fruits yet?
Fruit not yet !
Trichosanthes wallichiana (Indreni, Kanchan) which is reported from Nepal, similar to T. tricuspidata but bigger fruit and bigger seeds, kindly look for it and post the image if possible I have posted the seed images earlier
thank you, ... yes me too. i want to see them. preferably with a ruler along side the fruits and seeds
In trichosanthes species corolla is fimbriate or laciniate

thank you ... now if ...  samples look like these it would be great
plus we will get to see a lot of them on vine, there are sooo many flowers in the habit picture here.
Specially for you, ...!
Location : Okharpauwa, Kakani, Nepal
Date : 13 September 2018
Elevation : 5500 Ft.
Habit: Wild 
Attachments (4)- around 900 kb each. 
wow wow and wow and thank you so very nice of you to go back and track it.
its a medicinally important plant
i appreciate your sincere collegiality.
are you going to plant some of those seeds? if you do, i would love to see the sprouting and so on thru the maturity. would be lovely

This is from a different location ...
so that other site would be loaded with red fruits but this was enough. thank you for taking time out and isolating seeds etc
Taking this as Trichosanthes wallichiana (Ser.) Wight in view of discussions at Trichosanthes kirilowii for confirmation
Nepali Names : इन्द्रेणी Indrenee/ इन्द्रायणी Indraayanee/ बन फर्सी Ban Pharsee/ लहरे आँप Lahare Aanp

 


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