Lactuca brunoniana

Lactuca brunoniana (DC.) Wall. ex C.B.Clarke, (syn: Cicerbita brunoniana (Wall. ex C.B.Clarke) tuisl. ex Rech.f.; Prenanthes alliariifolia DC.; Prenanthes brunoniana Wall. ex DC.; Prenanthes hispidula DC.; Prenanthes raphanifolia DC.) as per Catalogue of Life
  
Himalayan Rattlesnake Root, Brown's Rattlesnake Root;
 
The inflorescence has numerous heads on a branched axis (panicle) and each head has 3-4 flowers (florets--structures with red base and white upper part. in fact they are ray florets).

Flora Simlensis and Flora of Mussoorie describe only two species as per following Key
1. leaves ovate or triangular, not variable, heads few, solitary or subsolitary, on long stalks: P. violaefolia
2. leaves variable, heads many in terminal panicles: P brunoniana
from Flora Simlensis
Stems 1-6 ft heads numerous, panicled leaves of various shape: P brunoniana
stems 12-18 inch heads few solitary long stalked leaves always triangular: P violaefolia
Description From Flora of Mussoorie
description of P. brononiana: herb, .3-2 mt, often diffuse, leaves very variable, alternate long petiolate, lanceolate or triangular, base cordate or truncate, toothed or sinuate, often 3 lobed or pinnatifid with variously cut and toothed lobes, heads ligulate, many in terminal panicles, flowers 3-5 in a head, purple or white, achenes not beaked, papus of hairs. flowers Oct-Nov, Dist. West Himalaya 1800-2700 mts
from Flora Simlensis
Smooth or rough, sometimes glandular, especially on the inflorescence and nerves of the leaves, Stem 1-6ft, simple or branched, Stalks long or short, slender, naked or winged, their bases sometimes dilated or lobed:, blade 4-8 in or more, lanceolate or triangular, cordate or truncate, toothed or sinuate, often pinnatifid, with large or small, variously cut and toothed lobes. Heads 1/2-3/4 in long in a terminal panicle flowers 3-5 in a head, purple or white
FF- Aug- Sept.

The plant (Chaetoseris hastata) looks similar in appearance to Prenanthes brunoniana but latter has only 3-5 florets in the head and achenes are not beaked;   


https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/a79336e18998e8c3/Herb73%20I%20IMG_4270.jpg?part=0.7&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGlRBUO7C36SaB7JIT-1tA0KjcNDW7r8Uak7HS-O7cAzpuKa8dfS2xoUpdP0W7YcDfOl8QjWP6Wc4aCuKjKp74HXysTAOSBC3ybF6F9MQL8GbLNyns
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/a79336e18998e8c3/Herb73%20I3%20IMG_4268.jpg?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrE4_exWB3ulHfP_EH5h9uAE4dI9RpOOtOW9bh-jC1QWaAm6j0pVLLGAmll8-fzzaephRXC-ANT5_E-jPyF8V8i89liL_fAS1XnAFwx1zZyk5kpKUqE
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/a79336e18998e8c3/Herb73%20I%20IMG_4268.jpg?part=0.5&view=1&vt=ANaJVrH9KJ6g05LUaGIBeI3DIERCepa7bDQWvlXJ5y2w6TX6vk6hBXoFW_yahVNmnw2rlRhTYG39uA7qyw-M00MImfz2DvU7yP2e5fuBjwk70b3qWVb4MG0
 
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/a79336e18998e8c3/Herb73%20I%20IMG_4267.jpg?part=0.3&view=1&vt=ANaJVrFQPHhw-2wKyOuuKOzjePc0K7wm83MysZ7ee10QJC1ogF0svXRQ28q_GU8QRaGBlXqzkbP270XoXQ95OWNZveYVUF1BTU7svmCar-jdh1W3DRTyyHk
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/a79336e18998e8c3/Herb73%20I2%20IMG_4267.jpg?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrG6BnFEl5_E0MGS40Njfc1NEkozn7-My0r7yhdA_5uH0fjtAoRicObMViRs1kvVC9E9be3WWTRP_hAH67_HnPKoQaN8UumRkyWDiaeWkmo6ipdFP30
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/a79336e18998e8c3/Herb73%20I%20IMG_4269.jpg?part=0.6&view=1&vt=ANaJVrF36QZYWxYI86OkqMcrs15XWCeiaDmLPxG8aA_5QSBv37WXE31m0RSSU0b_h01sCMAEi7xiY_bnxenFRNLP-Oxyc9OTgBz7i_YukB-ZitnvHuJ-XTM
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/a79336e18998e8c3/Herb73%20I%20IMG_4271.jpg?part=0.8&view=1&vt=ANaJVrFRd6QspezxWukrGbazVnmsL21HE8f6Ax732u3z6rI1i56swsVPyEIbVW7jxMMbW_o9z9sPo7iQt4dZrOD1041UkmwYf1VcRTQlKz2M83UCtmttQmA

on 13/8/10 during the trek from Ghangaria (around 11,000 ft.) to Hemkunt Sahib (around 14000 ft.); Flora of Uttarakhand- Herb73 for Id- JM - efloraofindia | Google Groups

  

(Images by Gurcharan Singh (Inserted by J.M.Garg) (For more images & complete details, click on the links))

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/35f7712fa578f9e1/Prenanthes-brunoniana-confirm-Univ%20Botanical%20Garden-DSC06582-Kashmir-3.jpg?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrH8TKOT895OsqYMaxVBIyxqfaBwoufXdZkrck--RCQZLs4b2o3IAHBTuGYgrbMIy9raPM3GeVRIMcdAjWHvA_Rx6c4mOvgCnVNaMp6RFAVLdQOLG38
 
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/35f7712fa578f9e1/Prenanthes-brunoniana-confirm-Univ%20Botanical%20Garden-DSC06578-Kashmir-1.jpg?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHSG67WERJWROjAyWeJCN4eT-Fk8SSTm3KdVR5LqyN8JwwQ8icAdIXjK_V3GA9rsO5b2_eBnRwwu4pVLvPQcb8SakBccNcvQ-lgjQc2ZRz2gs6cNd0
Asteraceae Fortnight Part 3-Ligulate heads (plus Misc.): Prenanthes brunoniana from Kashmir-GS-27 : Attachments (4). 1 post by 1 author. Prenanthes brunoniana photographed from University Botancal Garden Srinagar, Kashmir.

Can it be Prenanthes violaefolia Decne. as per images herein ?
In view of the recent post by ... & Id & keys by ... of Prenanthes violifolia (along with discussions in a recent post), I am more inclined to take this as Prenanthes brunoniana (Syn: Cicerbita brunoniana (Wall. ex DC.) Tuisl ex Rech. f.)

Images by Aarti S Khale (Inserted by J.M.Garg) (For more images & complete details, click on the links) 

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/3085afdae2ca1177/DSC_0082.JPG?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrF5UMThj5ueyOtO8Ltl8IIx45atCwA_24N42aQrKY6nE9oPRkn6zrRDOZU_4aGav4huiIwyf7jH-WlUgT4kfpKxphj6Me6kYM8ZotGtsovL9eKg0XY
 
Wild Flowers for ID : 021011 : AK-3: Very tiny flowers taken along the roadside on the way back from Gulmarg to Srinagar,on the 11th of Sept,11. 
I had seen bunches of some yellow flowers like Senecio..... so went to picture those and found these tiny flowers close by. Very difficult to locate from a distance.

Prenanthes sp., leaves needed for species identification
I found this picture with leaves.
Will this help in further identifying the wild flowers although picture is not too good.
Prenanthes brunoniana
This will also be Prenanthes violaefolia?
In view of the recent post by ... & Id & keys by ... of Prenanthes violifolia (along with discussions in a recent post), I am more inclined to take this as Prenanthes brunoniana (Syn: Cicerbita brunoniana (Wall. ex DC.) Tuisl ex Rech. f.)


https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/6e9e4b1e4ae18/DSC_5028.JPG?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrFQlEOLXs_lJSwkwISrukzHY9bf3xQzUSIVWZRF5pMu9CCfRmK5dIXKfSt4KKx7O4UifJ5Wmf0xTvhbIzh1RYIx_lEl8l_C7zRoPIsebZxGA1vWfzM
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/6e9e4b1e4ae18/DSC_5031.JPG?part=0.3&view=1&vt=ANaJVrEMb4vvef4MhPlosWd1VGDDZ3KdLiywBSpX72mqjN0JA6BP-3jRRCgLkY1yDx4SPdVMpjHBqO0REv3QFYfdWSDFwWWyHrjvXnCu-eC5xMFjTKZ2eJs
 
please identify the another herb from valley of flowers. : 7 posts by 4 authors. Attachments (3)- 1 Mb each. 
please identify the another herb from valley of flowers. 

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/3e88b92801677/Composite%205%20(1).JPG?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrFx5v6F2rHxV30_bvSwSJx9IKjjEBJKYRuyxpkcjnwXbTlqyzkqlEHEntOUDbMp0H4kcJGK3rFuw7Xyl0oMP_YZOov_1ESV-yZey5MhxAO_2FUBpXM
 
I am supplementing the post with more images of what I think is same plant, recorded from VoF...
It was resolved to be from Asteraceae when I had posted on group, and further id could not be established..

It may be some species of Prenanthus (Asteraceae). 

Pl. check with images at Lactuca brunoniana (DC.) Wall. ex C.B.Clarke 

https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/attach/6de38ea87ac53/_MG_6823_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.1&authuser=0
Asteraceae for ID ABSEP2016/47 : 8 posts by 4 authors. 4 images.
When I found this I thought it to be a Cicerbita or a Lactuca species but I cannot find a match. Please advise.
Above Mcleodganj, HP 2000m approx. 25 September 2016
I think Prenanthes sp.
Thank you again ... A quick look at yours, ... and ... posts at efloraofindia suggests my plant to be P. violaefolia. But the FOI shows a very different plant under Lactuca violaefolia, which I had seen on my trek at 3200m and has leaves closer to those of violas. Please advise.
The suggestion of Prenanthes is sound (which some consider some of the species to be Lactuca).
Lactuca brunoniana (sy. Prenanthes brunoniana) is very common on forest borders or in thin forest @ 1200-3000m in Kashmir & parts of N.Pakistan and was common in woods at Shimla, so if it is the correct suggestion genus-wise, this is a good candidate but needs checking. 
Pl. see comparative images with keys at Prenanthes
There is a lot of confusion in the keys as well as the postings.
Hope some throws more light to bring clarity to our images at Prenanthes
Similar to my specimen of Prenanthes brunoniana from Dalhousie...
Thank you ... I am collecting more evidence for it but think we have the same plant.
I took more photos of plants at about 2000-2100m altitude. The leaves are very variable as can be seen in these photos. The flowers have three white ligules without any red at the base. The plants are much branched with numerous flower heads. These seem to confirm the P. brunoniana suggested by ... Please advise.
I photographed plants with all leaves hastate/cordate but similar flowers at higher altitudes which I will post separately.
4 images.
Again Lactuca brunoniana (Syn. Prenanthes brunoniana, Cicerbita brunoniana)
 

Images by Gurcharan Singh  (Inserted by J.M.Garg) (For more images & complete details, click on the links)

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/c8de55562ad7c461/Prenanthes-violaefolia-Chakrata%20Deovan%20road-DSC00893-Chakrata-3.jpg?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrEIQAZr5ER5hmPMLkjpU7RsqVmifC8Ek8l5ihFZVYBEPAe7me7_62rW9SMcAroEzaU4B6nAZaAx8PXlQ6ljPnGr9ilMT38kcmbBzmH0BHOFQibn1cE
 
Asteraceae Fortnight Part 3-Ligulate heads (plus Misc.): Prenanthes violaefolia from Chakrata-GS-28 : Attachments (3). 1 post by 1 author.
Prenanthes volaefolia, differing from P. brunoniana in triangular slightly lobed leaves and single or few flower-heads on long stalk.
Photographed from Chakrata.  
In view of the recent post by ... & Id & keys by ... of Prenanthes violifolia (along with discussions in a recent post), I am more inclined to take this as Prenanthes brunoniana (Syn: Cicerbita brunoniana (Wall. ex DC.) Tuisl ex Rech. f.)

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/dfc9e7e120cedf17/Prenanthes%20sp.%20Ckta%20(2).JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrFEeTdDyw2t1WMYB2kEloCYtPjY0KRIHySu8HHlrDZ3h3teFk83bX5rNqQeHnptOJevwHk4rjFbQnza51GOFdw8Qah4zON-DkJCnmXLXgYGqzv-xQ4
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/dfc9e7e120cedf17/Prenanthes%20sp.%20Ckta%20(1).JPG?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHIR3pvrQHUd5tHTOeeGzVB0Wdzty30nwEUlUXyk5paZDecEvEOBRZ7TgdC2RBIeJwHe184CcG9hzGoXxKfM57Zto3Fz57Plf66Zvu_LzOK9aGWts4
 
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/dfc9e7e120cedf17/Prenanthes%20sp.%20Ckta%20(5).JPG?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGxnnbRJTeAjOeUBicFIBelWX_ZSDdztLMB3T6KGGhqCHVm4ir4H2KFVumzNOszyqMD01glIap9iAMNK2bnelfWyOkW09c43iiyw6FnBqly4-9SOp0
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/dfc9e7e120cedf17/Prenanthes%20sp.%20Ckta%20(9).JPG?part=0.7&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGW_Yi5edSZeDawH4Jc-CT_0ie9nSwaOSth66RcJuy5WFUT6qlktocre6Z8LpbR4XAyGbOL0HEOPOLD3uWx3CYMLAjeo3G-jdUU-ngblDH-JoOcFb4
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/dfc9e7e120cedf17/Prenanthes%20sp.%20Ckta%20(8).JPG?part=0.6&view=1&vt=ANaJVrG7cwoVWnqD-mGBrL3ogJZolRdd0Evqc1suT28EGt-TfbRYQly_WXSAkRRCfkTggULcK7RcwyUTLs7fIzdJQUyP_R6sfNqkUH-MtM4tIA3MmcUbZd4
Asteraceae Fortnight Part 3-Ligulate Heads: Prenanthes from Chakrata-NS 16
 Attachments (7). 3 posts by 3 authors.
This one was shot from Chakrata area.. was lying in my collection as Prenanthes brunoniana... is this Prenanthes violaefolia as per ... recent upload from the same area..
I hope Prenanthes violaefolia
In view of the recent post by ... & Id & keys by ... of Prenanthes violifolia (along with discussions in a recent post), I am more inclined to take this as Prenanthes brunoniana (Syn: Cicerbita brunoniana (Wall. ex DC.) Tuisl ex Rech. f.)
 

Images by Balkar Singh (Validation by J.M.Garg) (Inserted by J.M.Garg) (For more images & complete details, click on the links)) 

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/786dca66d06de42b/Prenanthes%20sp%20(3).JPG?part=0.3&view=1&vt=ANaJVrH7LmVmno2cJUJzGbMGBjWLxckw3yeu3vspqa9KaLWb7XhAmdcXqd6HckCpKctwl6s2gyvvGTKRtxcLB5sJ-8oY2LRSss4FNvOjnRn5NpMmP8Flsmk
Flora of Chakrata: 30092011-BS-2:Asteraceae sp (may be Prenanthes sp) for id from Chakrata Kalsi road : Attachments (4). 5 posts by 3 authors.
Sharing pics of a Asteraceae herb about 1-1.5 feet high, lyrate leaves.
Dont have another pics to count florets etc
looks like Prenanthes sp
Can this be Prenanthes brunoniana
pls help
after alot of search i could find the following information
Prenanthes brunoniana Wall. ex DC. is an unresolved name as per theplantlist.org
FOI considers Cicerbita brunoniana, Lactuca brunoniana, Prenanthes hispidula as Synonyms
The plant list consider Lactuca brunoniana Wall. ex C.B.Clarke is an unresolved name
The only accepted Name is Cicerbita brunoniana (Wall. ex C.B.Clarke) Rech.f. is an accepted name
Flora Simlensis and Flora of Muscsoorie describe only two species as per following Key
1. leaves ovate or triangular, not variable, heads few, solitary or subsolitary, on long stalks: P. violaefolia
2. leaves variable, heads many in terminal panicles: P brunoniana
Description From Flora of Mussoorie
description of P brononiana: herb, .3-2 mt, often diffuse, leaves very variable, , alternate long petiolate, lanceolate or triangular, base cordate or truncate, toothed or sinuate, often 3 lobed or pinnatifid with variously cut and toothed lobes, heads ligulate, many in terminal panicles, , flowers 3-5 in a head, purple or white, achenes not beaked, papus of hairs. flowers Oct-Nov, Dist. West Himalaya 1800-2700 mts
from flora simlensis
Stems 1-6 ft heads numerous, panicled leaves of various shape: P brunoniana
stems 12-18 inch heads few solitary long stalked leaves always triangular: P violaefolia
Smooth or rough, sometimes glandular, especially on the inflorescence and nerves of the leaves, Stem 1-6ft, simple or branched, Stalks long or short, slender, naked or winged, their bases sometimes dilated or lobed:, blade 4-8 in or more, lanceolate or triangular, cordate or truncate, toothed or sinuate, often pinnatifid, with large or small, variously cut and toothed lobes. Heads 1/2-3/4 in long in a terminal panicle flowers 3-5 in a head, purple or white
FF- aug sept
note This sp has the aspect of Lactuca hastata but the heads are 3-5 instead of 10-30 flowered and achenes are without a beak
as ... said it can be B sikkimensis, i could not find much information except a pic which i am attaching here. In both above said floras only 2 sp are described.
As i can understand the highly variable nature of P brunoniana or rightly said Cicerbita brunoniana may be in Unresolved list
From the above description our plant may be C brunoniana including the plant of ... in following thread
[efloraofindia:55286] Flora of Uttarakhand- Herb73 for Id- JM
And also the plant of ...

[efloraofindia:83787] Kalatope id al260911a


The only thing worrying me is that P. brunoniana is generally a taller plant and there are numerous heads forming a panicle. Here we have few heads like in P. violaefolia. Please compare with image appended by you. The leaves, however, do not match P. violaefolia. I am uploading my herbarium sheets of two for comparison.
Sir Confusing situation
Is this a new species of Preannthes means Cicerbita
It does not match well with both herbarium Specimen
It looks me Prenanthus brunoniana
It should be Prenanthes violaefolia Decne. as per images herein
In view of the recent post by ... & Id & keys by ... of Prenanthes violifolia (along with discussions in a recent post), I am more inclined to take this as Prenanthes brunoniana (Syn: Cicerbita brunoniana (Wall. ex DC.) Tuisl ex Rech. f.)


(Images by Balkar Singh (Inserted by J.M.Garg)

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/b9c8d93c12853e06/Cicerbita%20brunoniana%20(7).JPG?part=0.5&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGs82BVfrZBY19F10lS3-0Y3ohFNGx7CqOIVMyhR1N5E0OahwysU2Q_pD4LAlsuBgvEo2t0nFuxamT5AySz6iEHOkgC9WTqDXQwYjxAPqqC7sf1XJI
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/b9c8d93c12853e06/Cicerbita%20brunoniana%20(5).JPG?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrEx-pt2CIAaEUEgfHd-0vP9ywsIsewAtZMAypkqlNO7q_0eiGHKJQ4MiAr0ogFNGkrJxWTNUf0eZNk79f4R9xMhp4yvLWKpazY5i7c64qlHWPNLhtA
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/b9c8d93c12853e06/Cicerbita%20brunoniana%20(2).JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrEpw_fdMRC8Ad6-8Nx4-9bazrizINVbGXghz95d4rIrnaqtUYSDWlYdBUM0Lq-PCb0R7HzuE0CTT5rCUmEK3RYA-P2Dney0i2ym-gZ2uJkzDhWJMjU
Flora of Himachal Pradesh: Cicerbita brunoniana from Shimla : Attachments (5). 3 posts by 2 authors. 
Cicerbita brunoniana from Shimla
In view of the recent post by ... & Id & keys by ... of Prenanthes violifolia (along with discussions in a recent post), I am more inclined to take this as Prenanthes brunoniana (Syn: Cicerbita brunoniana (Wall. ex DC.) Tuisl ex Rech. f.)
Yes, sir. Prenanthes brunoniana (now Lactuca brunoniana)


Images by Alok Mahendroo (Id by Gurcharan Singh & Balkar Singh) (Inserted by J.M.Garg) (For more images & complete details, click on the links) 

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/18136f6ace6999eb/092411_4043b.jpg?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHi-3z-itokmT9cNQfww_JAX0vg70HXzJLzii2bo13lZe1iP0ZHxcAqA13gAmw2GcD7OPbh7sDUWJtXeumVEa0x42z8li-f-sHOKLm2Y5DlKR8WlFg
Kalatope id al260911a:  A beautiful flower, for which I have been waiting since last year (because my photos were not too good earlier)
Location Kalatope, Chamba
Altitude 2100 mts
Habit herb
Habitat wild
Height 30 inches
season Sept-Oct

May be Prenanthes sp., please mention plant height, number of heads in an inflorescence to conclude further.
Did not think of counting them at that time sir... but looking at the images there are generally about 3-4 flowers together.. the height of the plant was as mentioned earlier about 30 inches (give or take a few inches)
I can count several heads in this photograph. I think Prenanthes brunoniana now considered synonym of Lactuca brunoniana
Agreed Sir
yes I counted today 3-4 in each bunch and each branch had 13-14 flowers ...
your counting is not appropriate. The inflorescence has numerous heads on a branched axis (panicle) and each head has 3-4 flowers (florets--structures with red base and white upper part. in fact they are ray florets).  


 
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/23338b025bcd78eb/Prenanthes%20b-2.jpg?part=0.3&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHPLe6nN1X5J_oCZGIGXfiKxlCS5ErjoD28Fr2vHuMPu6ljiNiEtvIAzBTc_FWCYVt3SK2xLUTSW7CDbXeKM7XaojVVApxPqvMJvKLxQTlBaK0AKAo
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/23338b025bcd78eb/Prenanthes%20b-3.jpg?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrG4a7gjDhxTk-cst15mkTB1U_IQlOEKG1w5KL8aVOAmL5YcP8R0JxhwCCKRZ_S8QgV8AxI6cZIbaiZ4GKIU55eO0UIO9qp89JyEjjyZipxGJJ9g6Lw
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/23338b025bcd78eb/Prenanthes%20b-1.jpg?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGQmlK2IZ6xfXMnxPYC_I2sViB_-EAzZ_hp8PSjZtNE27kJC4Afn5FU4nPlY0isgSuWSp68yVvlTBGBYfjk0vAISJAFR8BkBkGCgFVqjrUFJoBUliY
VOF Week: Prenanthes brunoniana ?? at VoF: Tall Erect herb seen at VoF.
I think this is Prenanthes brunoniana?? (Family: Asteraceae).
Date/Time: 08-08-2012 / 09:55AM
Any lower leaves please??
Great find! Does look like Prenanthes brunoniana, but one can't be sure without seeing the lower leaves, as ... suggested.
I think yes after seeing upload by …
 

Images by Balkar Singh (Inserted by J.M.Garg) (For more images & complete details, click on the links)

https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/ddf6cffad64680fd/Prenanthes%20brunoniana%20(7).JPG?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGVTzcZTRo7snnCQAuMDfNalUJpwacH2Aep65_IWb1YGv122qD7QtsCJz16C2pgAJbrgvb_R61kykVVSbKKWJaYqIUm6WVswgViOvUwz3AnRV2K4U8
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/ddf6cffad64680fd/Prenanthes%20brunoniana%20(11).JPG?part=0.6&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHV0HszVIQ38D575cBopUOkNWNE4yWsGkc0i_qOMsaeuw6NmCA9Nf5a6g5mjiSEjyGgHPSwAdj1LhDwHqCDoOQ3JRj0KsSxflCkoQsz9-XpJw-PKtQ
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/ddf6cffad64680fd/Prenanthes%20brunoniana%20(12).JPG?part=0.7&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHxOzkRHiCBCgnEegE0pPc1sb9bRXoxvJCaD5dVc4eKNWLYzDjF-APnvf2YX83gIsW7LvkXz3WS3SvVYQtezEyn_xFZs1FEL6gh-AHq0Q-tWPSBIDE
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/ddf6cffad64680fd/Prenanthes%20brunoniana%20(13).JPG?part=0.8&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGWhNOgdkWQLO48WwkRN5OMC4fCcC6yg4D1R8-OIBeni3kvoIWA-HLGkwYdyn9J4iH4fXKHtTihoggi8fijtlhH38TSY77WSBeU-Fp9lcZSgDMYCdA
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/ddf6cffad64680fd/Prenanthes%20brunoniana%20(16).JPG?part=0.11&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHYk1sgYlszmEtVhEX73KRWyCHqvn2sGRSuJ2eJsV23jjYJHJ8it6nNnZH2IhYVK-1Q_wUzaKhoBaN8GBHAdbgaK2NBrKLRB0geecSjeY1O_4LUF8o
 
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https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/ddf6cffad64680fd/Prenanthes%20brunoniana%20(14).JPG?part=0.9&view=1&vt=ANaJVrF8vOfpEQB3-qZhjC-wQEK_jty1eACehrdnNdz1ami7wiTFea62_geXz5NCpqDCNCxgX7GzQoTvqSvA_0grcL_DsdUXIzPt9z_umd_sUDjRtmPv0hw
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/ddf6cffad64680fd/Prenanthes%20brunoniana%20(4).JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrH7nbPbGp_dvvvRfZNNB6nOISrZxTOf4_Vhw49KyV2j4PfG-pGIwoDcA1VVS2R7kbu_UfTwovk7wVSrufceCZq4ZOT3xHd_vAbrGwFGBo2VQoaXLGU
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/ddf6cffad64680fd/Prenanthes%20brunoniana%20(2).JPG?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrES-N_h-MSksfWL7cdrLPDr6v2SgS1PTRYRwWJOhNfTqLO_Z9q0UTkw41XJX2nCc8St2SlayvclNb2GvgSlyqpHMM9XYKFHB4ko3X_ZpWHjEuBaPGI
Prenanthes brunoniana from Valley


This much taller herb (compared to my last upload from Chakrata) was shot from the Valley of Flowers, August 2012 tour...
hope this is Prenanthes brunoniana.. please validate/correct..
It looks me Prenanthes brunoniana.


https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/6df1ae6aa21b4/_MG_7130_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrEjALKtwyk0fpltspXB7nl4Z4qxmC4uu_iJ7FQEfC_iGlEJkyIGh_II8SSuI3aTdC7m54AQj_WKAft3aBD8RhTRp6FarIbbAMe-Io66eSYSYdJ-0gI
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/6df1ae6aa21b4/_MG_7138_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.6&view=1&vt=ANaJVrFsrqmpkZxrs2E96ZCTHROYt6QbUwh6DDqVhZe8lDh3VWcjNMfk8I58hKDKDjUMstU5tlgBavr5WbvW3PF6awzo40xi3HkUTi4IvaxkxOrQRmGVtkM
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/6df1ae6aa21b4/_MG_7236_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.9&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGKn0hNuNoGi4gyoj9IdQpEaUFsun08iswwaCO9_JFreZ7GRpV8l6t9HcMy23xLz77rxRmzdzj9ygokLJET7EXQ1kF1wRCkiRZ0Jlcum2WaobGe_yY
 
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https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/attach/6df1ae6aa21b4/_MG_7098_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.1&view=1&authuser=0
https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/attach/6df1ae6aa21b4/_MG_7095_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.2&view=1&authuser=0
https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/attach/6df1ae6aa21b4/_MG_7127_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.3&view=1&authuser=0
https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/attach/6df1ae6aa21b4/_MG_7133_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.5&view=1&authuser=0
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/6df1ae6aa21b4/_MG_7225_01Oct2016.jpg?part=0.1.7&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHlJZBKYtpSKBMdmTuBmTztfKwfHQSpxN9V9kguISZfaDLJNMR6DCLtdr9IYjXTVk4UStSC0TG2Oruj-ySiohPPMO7her35U8aLUXplxwtjceNZS8o
Prenanthes sp.? ABOCT2016/05 : 3 posts by 2 authors. 9 images.
These plants have cordate/ hastate leaves with winged stalks and with only a little variation in leaf shape, but the flowers are similar to the other Prenanthes I posted here before. Please advise.

Mcleodganj-Triund, Dharamshala, HP
2700m approx.
01 October 2016
Lactuca brunoniana (Syn. Prenanthes brunoniana, Cicerbita brunoniana)
 
VOF Week: Herb for id from Valley of Flowers:  This one is I think similar observation as ... have
uploaded....yet to be resolved..I am uploading mine pics..hope to get ideas..
Yes ..., all aspects are ditto.
Perhaps an example of (if it turns out true) how better and well illustrated photographs help in identification.
I hope Prenanthes violaefolia.
My herbarium from Kashmir

 ... would like to know what are two structures that we see.
Am I mistaking the pinkish to be flowers, and the green to be fruits ?
Green is the flower bud. The pink ones are bracts.
On further consideration I think there is some thing wrong with the above identification, as also identification of my Herbarium specimen from Kashmir. The leaves are different from true Prenanthes violaefolia (now Cicerbita violaefolia).
The search is still on for true ID
Yes, ... On seeing Prenanthes violaefolia at FOI, I got the feeling it could not be ID of this plant.
If the buds are Ok, it may be Prenanthes brunoniana as the leaves are highly variable & match with the leaves posted by Ashwini ji on 8.10.16 in another thread.


Sharing these pics from valley of flowers.. please help to id..
as the flowers are not open, seems difficult to reach to any conclusion..
early feedback was Prenanthes violaefolia ..
please share your opinion..
Prenanthes species in efi   
If the buds are Ok, it may be Prenanthes brunoniana as the leaves are highly variable & match with the leaves posted by ... on 8.10.16 in another thread.


 
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/219241759863a/DSCN4691.JPG?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrEh8LUuydGRkwNYXwnDS92VX_2zXBXH9fCs78kvIi1FM_lbXkksO6ZiB6knGAtYSEfpLdigZpSpLuHHzLqFw1eZLJFHGqvU1geLOZ4EGC8Dqr_tKlw
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/219241759863a/DSCN4695%20-%20Copy.JPG?part=0.3&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGZFBsrD6mJYiZ1iTohUaaeCSl3eJJoMctgbbhddwgU2yKaSSaKFjWXUHb9WxKl3Xxb0KFLQJbV9ZvaxrrAejJP57k-RotKT9n2xj6CkMM3C5pyiPk
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/219241759863a/DSCN4697.JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGpKEPSpUR0kRwlkepLpICBER_Q2dS2oQMlh3YB2TZtl8H70IjHEAk8PoqKXVl3sZtQ4VmkFQLrSi0MevMpiv-VARItbbaOjiRb9xkxhku75HWOXiQ
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Lactuca brunoniana AT OCT2016/03: 2 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (4)
Lactuca brunoniana
Synonyms: Prenanthes brunoniana, Cicerbita brunoniana
Nov., 2015
Shimla Water Catchment Researve Forest & Wildlife Sanctuary


https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/57c10bfe6e9bc/DSC_0553.JPG?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrG-7Lc-RocR0iqjixJYDJhDIU2mfM8nxyw-5nGNzIgOk_rsYVDmqGd-zo3YwP37X05x9xL7nO3B28YnM76FyWYVoP1X0RQT44Cco7pRVkxaWjxzmVk
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https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/57c10bfe6e9bc/DSC_0574.JPG?part=0.3&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHqI-NwHaGWqp2pQuDeCoj1B4j4UUegd-WZZNcsokfbkvxMIgOvK5efFCghNh3cOB_FoUqio9DXVZYjKhxu2nIi61nGEXDb9alA6wIADB94qQoW-ds
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/57c10bfe6e9bc/DSC_0573.JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGalv994hdrSgAm6qhOrea1rikNa75F6C1rCTB8sXaVIAqULVkxOIAjA40YLQJ8G2zKVALNOGxy6Klgmz3K45uEk0zcno1ci6BnN-EDvT3x3Xrq5BY
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/57c10bfe6e9bc/CSC_0819.JPG?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrFrSRUce7nezvwVq1fbSeuhQ01YiqXjCCh3bYp1yweBMY3z6KTBf7slJXXV1RvpK3v51zzPFksbVFCICC7WM3WJAAmfNSOLnWIWa7VyctvDRo0HL4I
SK124OCT03-2016:ID : 7 posts by 2 authors. Attachments (6)
Sharing some pictures for ID shot at Chandragiri Hill Kathmandu on 19 September 2016 at 8200 ft.
Appears like Prenanthes species (pl. check comparative images).
Does not seem match with any of two Prenanthes recorded in Nepal as per the link and book
However, I guess it is Prenanthes as suggested by you.
Need help from experts.
I think it should be Prenanthes brunoniana as per keys in another thread.
Thank you ... I guess flower and stamen colors may vary.
The accepted name is Lactuca brunoniana (DC.) Wall. ex C.B.Clarke ??
Accepted ID is Melanoseris brunoniana (Wall. ex DC.) N.Kilian & Ze H.Wang !


https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/18a84bf4125ac/Lactuca%20brunonianaIMG_0478.JPG?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrHBmJlZeaWMILBKPCLreSOL_5HzE3DBqWXWNpEQ6x6gBe3wdRhmOxuDEJCnos1JN47ydEphsQrm_vM6Zk9ICaXJNXCkNbZhi5Fd3Gv4fRfhSoH_tXQ
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/18a84bf4125ac/Lactuca%20brunonianaIMG_0516.JPG?part=0.5&view=1&vt=ANaJVrECLKLdhn-Z9Z0xWPjaLbccyBLuqOd4sVX1i-3gnkf-mnjUKdlQ041WKVojcY_TtIfJBuLgYXN7fhpkb01fpHCAmZtkzN8mmrDiMIzRCvJAmBCe2iw
 
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https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/18a84bf4125ac/Lactuca%20brunonianaIMG_0514.JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrGNxMLXpI2xEkwYfnSPGYAuXJYhJj97qPjgNwrSQvmaj_Gf67UAOU-gl84F7o4PZ2V85indiTWtutNWZ1eL-q2S-4L3c5UIYaPyy319JAymE7xvw_A
https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/18a84bf4125ac/Lactuca%20brunonianaIMG_0481.JPG?part=0.1&view=1&vt=ANaJVrEgRdUgd-arEfsgu1ygl4G5ZYaO7aYxz2c--O5HwXTeXZ63MH8vjUpvN9ILid2no6OSSv4qe-THkGfe0WMFY6lDUFqSzD9YJxM4Mpd3uF4ZVKmf8kI
For sharing. Saw this Lactuca brunoniana in the Valley of flowers, Uttarakhand in Aug 2018.


https://08511630493324166816.googlegroups.com/attach/9a292707d3115/1569677192799%20(2).jpg?part=0.4&view=1&vt=ANaJVrFdAHFLsaE-RB-DceD8_7QLH0By8Lo-8pLG--S94bHfSPRJUpXBf6rfFDEQ8UtDYxCyJ_24Pfx54ufYVQNjUHmVrF3fcEFjunDCNw_Kebt9qhtlhvk
 
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Plant from Shimla, H.P : 8 posts by 3 authors. Attachments (4)
Please help me to identify this plant
Plant from Shimla district, Himachal Pradesh. Elevation approximately 3000 MTR.
Growing wild. Blooming in 17 September 19

Thanks and Welcome, ...  I know the plant quite well, but unable to recall the id, right now. Appears to be from Asteraceae
Lactuca brunoniana (DC.) Wall. ex C.B.Clarke
Thank you for your help. In my image the flower only has three petals but the species suggested by you has more than three petals as per Flowers of India and other internet images. Kindly guide
Pl. check with observations at
Prenanthes brunoniana in FOI : 3 posts by 2 authors.
Images of Prenanthes brunoniana in FOI are actually of Lactuca violifolia and not of Lactuca brunoniana as per keys and details herein.
Pl. correct.
Thanks ...!
Actually two plants are mixed up on that page. Second picture is of Lactuca violifolia. Lactuca violifolia is a much smaller plant, only a foot tall or so, contrasting to a meter tall Lactuca brunoniana
Yes. OK now.


References:
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